Author: Rosanna Turcinovich Giuricin

Rome, Croatian diplomacy is based in an elegant neighborhood, near Parioli, the welcome is warm, a welcome coffee as is appropriate, but above all the meeting with the new Ambassador, Damir Grubisa, from Rijeka, university professor, political scientist, open, available who comes to meet us with an outstretched hand and an engaging smile. His installation dates back to only a few months ago but in these ever-accelerating times, everything grows quickly, as does his immediate commitment and, naturally, his notoriety. There have already been many contacts, just scroll through the Embassy website. Among the commitments, also the invitation to the Quirinale to participate in the ceremony of the Day of Remembrance. A reflection on this anniversary is the first question we ask him. “The concept of shared memory has been discussed for a long time – he replies – to reach the conclusion that the best way is in any case that of a pluralistic approach respecting the memory of others and individual paths. Our countries went through very troubled historical periods between the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, due to the flourishing of nationalisms. The emergence of new identities has led to inevitable clashes. Tragedy would have it that new authoritarian forms such as fascism and Bolshevik communism were added to this. This has triggered this spiral of violence that permeates our story. What to do? The overcoming of what has been, also passes through the great contribution of the Presidents Giorgio Napolitano, Ivo Josipovic and Danilo Turk who met in 2010 in Trieste, giving life to the spirit of Trieste. Which means becoming aware of everything that has happened and starting again from these premises for a European future. If it is true that a united Europe has managed to overcome French and German nationalism, why shouldn't it do the same on our border? Naturally, the new reality – and the Nobel Prize awarded to the European Union is significant – has shown us that it is possible, by breaking down borders, to create a new community in which everyone enters with their own cultural and historical identity, without keeping silent or mystifying their own history or that of others, in a dialogue that favors the construction of common foundations. The idea of ​​an even more united Europe is a possible goal that will lead us from a century and more of conflicts that have led to horrendous wars, revenge, revanchism, to a new course.  I believe in a Europe of citizens, of a reality without borders, of a Europe of solidarity, of well-being, of subsidiarity, of all those forms of civil coexistence that have arisen from our history. I mean, we don't just have suffering behind us, if much has been destroyed, much has been built. The ugliness has hurt us and we must not forget it but we cannot let it influence us anymore, we must move forward, mature, aware". Why is it so difficult to overcome the concept of boundary that we carry within us and that continues to create divisions, arouses suspicion, makes us unfit to live persuaded? “All of us born and raised on this border must become aware of how important the osmosis between ethnic groups, populations, is, through the knowledge of different languages, understanding, the ability to understand the cultural codes of others: this is what provides us with a solid basis for living in a multicultural Europe. Which allows us to overcome conflicts right across the border. Let's take the example of Fiume: its multiculturalism has allowed it to grow. This also happened in the former Yugoslavia where federalism supported a non-existent political pluralism so that things could work better than in other communist states. Now we are fully aware that without a multicultural reality we cannot live in today's world, for us who know its paths it must become a strength". What do the young people you have always interacted with as a teacher think about this? Do they have a different attitude towards these issues, particularly towards the crux of the story? “They are less influenced by the tragedies of the twentieth century and the more time passes, the wider the gap becomes, making everything seem far away, like the Punic Wars. The memory will certainly live on in future generations but they will no longer feel it on their own skin. They say that wars end when the last fighter dies.” Europe is often accused of relying solely on economic glue. In July the Union will also extend to Croatia, what do you expect from this new dimension? “Croatia aspires to be part of the European single market also because it is based on four great freedoms: the mobility of labor, capital, goods and services. That is, the necessary prerequisite for creating a modern society, which is integrating despite attempts to relegate it to small sectors. But economy also means sharing the future of populations, nations, European citizens belonging to a single family, and not only because there are historical ties between us but above all because we create a new future, which is the most important thing. In the 1990s, President Tudjman said: we must be part of Europe by historical right because we have always been the antemural of Christianity. It's an approach that I would define as retrograde. It is true that our roots are common, intertwined with the civilizations of the past that have left us so much, from the Renaissance to Humanism, up to Austria-Hungary and passing through the processes of industrialization, but our European choice is also concrete, material, that is, the search for a security that guarantees us precisely being together with all these people, in peace for sixty years, and that is no small thing". The crisis is scary, could it undermine the foundations of Europe if integration were to remain in the economic sphere? "Do not. By entering the European economic system we will be able to take in all the positive things that are connected to this process: joint commercial activity, both private and community, national and transnational investments and then, the most important thing is the concept of equality between citizens with the same level of guarantees in a very large territory which is one of the main characteristics of the European Union. Today it is objectively in crisis, but it is also true that the crisis is general. Of course it could lead to despair but it could also stimulate us to imagine new paths, with different stimuli that make us stronger and willing to invest more energy in overcoming it. From every crisis situation positive impulses arise, so if it is right to have a real dose of pessimism, it is also true that we must leverage optimism to be able to imagine better scenarios for ourselves and our children and our fellow man in general". As Ambassador, you had the opportunity to meet President Napolitano, you said several things, noting that the level of relations between Italy and Croatia is already excellent but with issues still to be resolved. Which? “It is usually said that relationships are excellent but need to be improved. It is a curious paradox that, however, shows us the path to follow. President Napolitano has given a great boost to the evolution of relations between our countries, so we trust that future presidents will want to build on the successes achieved by committing themselves to further developing these relations, which I would certainly define as very friendly. The issues to be resolved? First of all, the restitution of nationalized assets. A problem that needs to be resolved in Croatia, the Government is actually preparing to do so with a law on restitution that provides for the equal treatment of foreign citizens with Croatian citizens in matters of restitution. Which means resolving the requests – 1036 of which have been filed by Italian citizens – for the restitution of nationalized assets. Something has been attempted to resolve at a regional level without the hoped-for results, the approach is not the best due to a whole series of administrative bureaucratic obstacles. This is why it must be done with a new, clear law, at a national level, that leaves no room for biased interpretations. When I left for my new assignment, the first draft of this document was already being discussed, let's hope that the necessary process will be concluded as soon as possible. The law is actually called "Law on Changes and Additions to the Law on Denationalization of Assets Confiscated During the Period of Yugoslav Communist Rule" (Zakon o izmjenama i dopunama zakona o denacionalizaciji imovine oduzete za vrijeme jugoslavenske komunističke vladavine). I believe that the solution to this problem will give a further great impetus to the definition of relations between countries. Then, of course, what we want is for the exiles and all those who suffered in the post-war years to feel that Croatia is their land, their home, to return, to invest and to live there." Do you think it would be appropriate to have a law that is the opposite of the Italian one that granted citizenship to members of the Italian national group in Croatia and Slovenia? So does it favor the descendants of the exiles? “It will be the objective of a future comparison between Italy and Croatia. We signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Italy on the development of bilateral relations which for two years remained at a standstill due to the crises of the governments, both Croatian with the elections and then Italian with the creation of the technical government. As a result, the inter-ministerial committees did not meet, but everything should resume shortly and there is a reflection in this sense, I mean on citizenship matters. So, after the elections this will be our first commitment. Then there is another very important thing. This summer the parliament ratified the cultural agreements between Italy and Croatia, which are fundamental for us, because it means recognizing the minorities that already have their own linguistic and national autonomy, not only full support from the state in which they live but also the development of cultural programs, at a capillary level of institutions, in a direct way. It would be possible to start twinning between cultural institutions. A very useful thing that must be implemented as soon as possible." Who would be responsible for starting this network of connections? “A bilateral commission was appointed with regional branches of committees of experts in the field and representatives of local administrations. All this in order to implement what already exists with greater ease of decision and movement. After the elections, we will be able to start implementing this process. And then, the other big theme is that of the Italian-Croatian Economic Forum that we would like to activate right on the eve of Croatia's entry into the European Union, at ministerial level, at chambers of commerce and business entities, therefore at various levels (from Confindustria to other entities) to create a nucleus, a pool at the service of Italian entrepreneurs who want to operate in Croatia and vice versa of Croatian entrepreneurs who want to expand on the Italian market. It goes without saying that this would involve the banking world and so on. Today, for Croatia, Italy is the first economic partner, and the first to have ratified (among the founding states of the EU) the agreement to allow the enlargement of the EU to include Croatia”. What has been the role, in these years of rapprochement with the EU, of European projects such as the IPA Adriatic extended also to countries that are not part of it? Can this be considered a dress rehearsal? “It is one of the attractions of the EU, which provides new members, even during the accession process, with the means necessary to operate in various fields, transforming a utopia into something very concrete. A Europe that helps people to integrate with structural funds, with cohesion funds, providing clear economic prospects, is not bait, it is a concrete representation of how an integrated system can work. All of this is based not on indiscriminate funding but on projects that must be imagined and developed jointly, within a productive reality in which everyone invests their own skills. A profound change compared to the subsidies, aid and integrations of the past. Now we fund shared ideas that connect different realities. This is a system that has given excellent results precisely in those business dimensions that were below the average GDP per capita". The Embassy is also a showcase, what are you working on in this delicate moment of the journey towards Europe? “The classic concept of diplomacy has long been outdated, it is no longer the vehicle for dialogue between different state entities, today communication occurs in another way, with fast means, or rather I would say immediate. Our task is to worthily represent our State and establish new relationships by overcoming the old barriers of a diplomacy that was committed to putting up barriers everywhere. It was enough to enter an Embassy, ​​say good morning and there was already someone who answered "you can't" before even knowing the problem. “Non se pol” as they would say in Trieste. Now we work a lot on showcase projects, we communicate with natural interface environments and using technological means in step with the times. It is no longer the ambassador who transmits messages between ministers, the Internet takes care of that. A few days ago in Turin I attended a video conference meeting with President Hollande, this is now our reality. In the past, diplomats were privileged, today they are officials who carry out their duties, and that's it. Normal people who need to know how to communicate. Analytical ability and understanding things remain fundamental. It's a bit like what happens with foreign correspondents of newspapers, they have a completely different function, that of mediating, of trying to understand by exploiting a particular point of observation, making use of all the skills acquired over time. A new, much more streamlined role. In the 17s, there were XNUMX officials in our Roman Embassy, ​​today we are almost half." She had the opportunity to work in America, always in diplomacy and now in Italy. Differences? “American society is very open, contacts more accessible. In Europe, tradition persists with attitudes that belong to the past. We are divided in our social roles, we keep our distance. In America, with a new idea, it is possible to operate much more easily and more immediately than can be done in the Old Continent. Even though things are changing quickly, the passing of time and modernity forces us to do so.” Among the many meetings of these first months, there was also the one with the Croats from Molise. How was it? “A very special experience, I met people who live in isolation, maintaining their own traditions, habits and customs. I saw their living nativity scene, in San Felice, very fascinating with the participation of the whole country. This is a wealth that must be maintained and supported in every way. They are perfectly integrated into Italian society, they feel like full Italian citizens but they are also proud of their past and of the archaic language. We are making a mistake by trying to teach them modern Croatian, I think we should be the ones to learn the original language from them, a kind of struggle between neologisms and historical language”. How does Italy perceive Croatia today? “One of the most important vehicles for getting people talking about us is tourism, which gives back the image of an evolving reality. No longer a remote, distant land, it is the holiday destination, the passion of yachtsmen attracted by the thousand islands of the coast. An important contribution also comes from the mass media which are often present on the issues that concern us. Compared to when I started my work, a few decades ago, let's say that perception has improved considerably." Why is it still so difficult to make others understand that Italians did not arrive in Istria, Fiume and Dalmatia with fascism but have always been there? “It is the result of prejudices and stereotypes that have been used for political purposes. The important thing is to discover today that populations lived here who produced wealth, who left us tangible signs of their presence, who are part of reality, of everyday life. We who live on the shores of this Adriatic Sea must consider it a sea that unites us in our diversity. Let's take an example: when we talk about Croatian cuisine, what do we mean? It contains three different aspects: Central European cuisine (a little Austrian, a little Hungarian), Balkan cuisine (lamb, cevapcici) and Adriatic Mediterranean cuisine (oil and vine, pasta and rice). Different identities that overlap and that must be valued in their specificity to feel richer in this Europe”. What is the project that you care about most and that you would like to realize during your stay in Rome? “The most ambitious one concerns mutual understanding between the two peoples, I would like to introduce Croatia to the new generations but at the same time I would like those prejudices towards Italians in Croatia and towards Croats or Slavs in Italy to fall on the other side. Realities that play a fundamental role today. And then I would also like the reunion of the Exiles with their land to take place. When this is possible, then we will be able to feel more confident and happy.” A thunderstorm broke out, with lightning and thunder, shaking Rome on a cold February day. The usual practice would be for this to happen only in the summer, with the heat and sun of August. Clearly meteorology has decided to take a new course. We greet the Ambassador satisfied with the news that the people of Fiume will hold their first World Cup meeting in June in Rijeka.